[He feels that, looking up at Raph like he's putting together a little puzzle. Or a big one, Raph is a big guy so naturally big puzzle.
He lets that cool mist from the falls keep him a little calmer. Why did Dad do this to them? Because it does feel like something he chose to do to them, and not an agreement they all came to together. Maybe if it'd been worked up to, maybe if it had been discussed, it could've been easier. Maybe Leo would've even felt prepared.]
How was I supposed to? [There's no heat to the question, just a genuine question.] Dad had expectations of me, and you were dealing with the change...
[ Expectations. Expectations he didn't stay tuned in to try to help with. Fallout he wasn't there for, stuff to deal with and adjust to that he didn't give anyone a guideline about.
It still stings. If Raph's honest. Their dad making that call and stepping back like it wasn't a big deal, like it couldn't be life or death if something serious happened (said a highly intense and historically overprotective king).
Not mad, not bitter, not even really surprised. Just stung and disappointed.
... well.
Maybe a little mad specifically right now. ]
Leo, you're like a hundred times more important than either of those!
[ No, come on, reel it in some, Raph. Get a grip. Yelling is not communicating. He can do it. He can kinda sorta do it.
He can't do it. He wants to punch the sun as if it'll prove his point. The entire planet should know he's offended on Leo's behalf and not a hundred percent sure who the right offense target is. ]
[Yelling isn't communicating. Even as Leo's own ninpo seems to draw back from the outburst before the words sink in, what Raph is trying to say.
Disbelief. A little mild confusion that Raph is offended on his behalf? Shouldn't he be offended for himself? He instinctively wants to ask: Am I more important than those expectations? His own self-doubt creeping in. He knows, logically, emotionally, that they all care about each other and want each other to be happy and safe. But there's still sometimes that feeling. Those times way early on his suggestions or plans were glossed over, his sharing he few things he purely enjoys with them to be made a joke (he REALLY wanted them to be as psyched as he was about MTH.
Not the point. It isn't the point of this conversation. Leo shakes his head a little to jostle those thoughts before he goes too deep into that. Focus. Regroup.]
[ What if we mind melded to talk about our issues and had to try to stop ourselves from going on little feelings spirals, and we were both mutant turtles.
Feeling Leo's side of the equation is enough to push Raph from trying to get a handle to actually getting a handle. He shakes his hands out to try to dismiss the tension, looks down at them.
It mostly feels like guilt. A stone-heavy sense of responsibility for what Leo's feeling, second nature. Some confusion for the confusion-- he thought he was pretty clear?
Raph doesn't have an answer on tap for the question right away. He hesitates. Flounders a little, trying to figure out what to say and where to start. ]
Tell me? Text me. Stick a note to my shell.
[ Is it even about "should've done" or "did wrong"??? Because it feels like that's a side step away from the point. How is he supposed to know? (He's the one who's here. He guesses whether he knows or not doesn't matter. He needs to know anyway.) ]
Why was I gonna push back if I thought you really wanted to give it a shot?
Because it's your spot? It was always your spot, I never even wanted it.
[He says it easily enough now that the hump of starting the conversation is over.]
But then you never tried to fight me about it or try to take it back, so I figured maybe you didn't want it all those years either, and I didn't wanna shove it back on you-
[It was a dumb, sixteen year old idea. The thought that maybe he could annoy Raph into taking it back. But even as those two months went on, Leo regretted it. But it was one of those situations where once he took the first step, he couldn't go back. Not without a lot of awkwardness he wanted to avoid.]
...After I'd done all that, if I'd come to you and really told you I didn't want it and asked you to take it back, would you have?
[ The problem with doing this talk connected like this, Raph thinks, is that there's no amount of bluffing or subject-changing or convenient omission that can hide the fact that Leo's right. He never wanted it either. He just wanted to look out for his brothers.
He doesn't know if he's hurt that Leo tried to manipulate his way out of it or relieved that's what it was all along. Not just-- looking at something Raph worked hard at, took seriously, something important, and deciding it wasn't worth all that.
Relieved, maybe. He's leaning that way. ]
Yeah. I would've. [ At least that answer's easy. He's the big brother. He did it before, he could do it again. After unlocking their ninpo, after Shredder, it would've been less terrifying. Less lonely. But... ]
I mean, maybe I would've put out some feelers about, uh. Playin' training wheels for you. Or working out a system where you could take point on some missions. I dunno. 'cause you're good, y'know? You're a natural. And I trust you. [ And there, reflected in the water, a little wave of light passing through it, is blue.
Leo was the first one he learned to trust like that. ]
Pops didn't think that idea up just for kicks, buddy.
[ Leo sees more angles. Usually has a good read on people. Has a good head for detailed planning. Knows how to motivate, cares about everyone being safe. He's really good. Would it have been fair to hold him back from growing into it? ]
[He has to fight the kneejerk response, that immediate instinctual reaction to argue, to fight. The hurt that even now, no one asked what he wanted and assumed Leo would want to lead. Whether he has the skills and know-how or not, he didn't want it. He especially didn't want it thrust on him suddenly with no warning.
But Raph does trust him. Raph trusted him when Leo asked him to, and it means the world to him. Knowing his big brother will trust him when the chips are down.]
I- [Uggghhhh talking. They are talking and working this out, not arguing.] I know. I know, you and dad think I'd be good at it.
...But after everything that happened, I dunno if I'm the best choice there.
[ A little confusion-- Raph's not sure how "put out feelers" wouldn't include asking Leo how it sounded. He'll follow with a much more deliberately sent apologetic feeling. He kind of has no idea what he's doing. In general, usually, but especially just... this whole situation right now. (He makes a little note to self to include an actual apology when it wouldn't feel like a weird interjection. Leo clearly deserves one.)
Raph's starting to wonder, between this and the Witch Town memory he saw a while back, if it turns out he actually did inherit their dad's way of assuming everyone else was on the same thoughts and feelings level about stuff and barreling forward with it.
All the nagging and lecturing and pushing he did not wanting Leo to have to learn the tough parts the hard way, to feel like he used to feel, and he never stopped to ask if Leo felt the way he used to feel already. Right from jump.
Raph shrugs one shoulder. ]
I still think you're a great choice. If you ever do want it. I'm proud of you either way.
[ That Is A Threat. He'll be very proud.
If, uh. Also quietly absolutely terrified of Leo making a choice to sacrifice himself like that again. ]
[It's heartening to hear. Enough there's gratitude coming from his side of things. It feels good to hear, even if he doesn't want to be leader. Not the way things played out.
Leo takes a breath and tilts his head back, watching the water behind and above him flow down to hit the rocks they're sitting on.]
I still think you're the best choice of that though. Always were, even if we made it tough.
[And then there's some apology there. Unspoken, but felt. They're brothers in his mind first and foremost, even when things got dangerous and they needed to be more serious. Leo never wanted them to get too lost in being heroes and forget they're brothers first.
But then there's nervous energy. A flash in the reflective water behind him of Krang Prime towering over him before he blinks it back, eyes closed tight for a second.]
I think you should take it back over. If you guys get out of here.
[ Easy affection. A candle in the dark. A solid, real hand to grab instead of hitting the bottom, I want you to know I finally understand.
Brothers first.
Not sure what the emotional equivalent of almost reflexively punching some water is. Probably a very brief jolt of equal parts anger, fear, and protectiveness. His apologies, Leo, let him balance that out with, dare he say, more confusion. ]
And we're all gonna get outta here.
[ Raph believes that.
He believes it whether he really believes it or not.
There are a lot of things a turtle can substitute with grit and frankly unhinged depths of stubbornness. Hope is one of those things, right.
(... it's weird to hear Leo say "if." "You guys," like he's separate. Don't care for that one bit.) ]
[There's a bone deep exhaustion to Leo's face as he looks up at Raph. A reality he's been turning over in his mind since he got here months ago, one he's come to accept now with the promise Hunter made him. Raph doesn't know. Or maybe doesn't want to know and has politely looked the other way at every opportunity.]
...Yeah, you're right. You guys are definitely gonna get back home.
[Not 'out of here' this time; Leo has determined he'll get out of Temple Horizon. Just maybe not 'home'.]
I tried to make it easy when I could. [Keeping the guys focused when they all got unruly. Making sure they had the bigger picture in mind, bringing up things he thought were obvious when he realized they weren't. All little things just to help Raph lead.]
....Did... Don talk to you? About. [He should talk about it. It's the whole point of why they're doing this. But why is it so hard?] About what happened.
[ Okay yeah. Did not imagine that "you guys" situation. That's a purposeful line being drawn. There's something he doesn't know that he should know. Or that he knows and maybe doesn't know he knows the way that he was supposed to know he knows it?
Anxiety is already starting to creep in. Like most of Raph's feelings, it only really comes in sledgehammer strength. A do something fix it bleeding into self-directed irritation, that he's never learned to cut back as much as he's learned it usually works out better if he can keep himself on a leash until it eases up.
They're here together. Whatever it is, they'll figure it out. ]
Depends on what 'what' you mean. I hate to say it, but we got a 'what happened' list about as long as both my arms put together. [ That's probably not super helpful.
There's still a list if he narrows it down to generally what they're here for. But it's a less huge list. ] He, uh. He showed me some of what happened after the escape pods?
[ He doesn't regret what he did, there, but he does feel guilty. Especially seeing the fallout he wasn't there for.
Leo angry. Really actually angry. Pushing through, no stopping to think first, not listening. Raph remembers as much as he remembers other parts of what Leo said to get through to him. Like half a dream, a little warped, you didn't yell because you were mad, you yelled because you were scared. ]
I feel like maybe that's not exactly what you mean.
[He figured Don and Raph talked over at Egg, more than either would ever really tell him. But knowing that Raph saw how Leo was immediately after... There's a little bit of shame there. He's never just lost his temper before, hates even remembering he has one. But that Raph saw... He isn't sure what to think about it.
But there is a long "what happened" list if he's being honest. He rubs at the back of his neck with trembling hands.]
Y-yeah. There was.. It was a lot that day.
["That day", because it's been months now in this place.] Sorry you had to see it.
[Just do it. Rip off the band-aid, fast and quick. Sometimes it's good to ease Raph into things, but sometimes you do just have to do it quick.]
I was talking about after the portal cut off. I-
[Just fucking say it. Stop hesitating. He's gone out of his way to talk around it, allude, hint, but never just outright say it. Raph deserves that much from him after what he did.] I died in there, Raph. Right before this place.
[ For as hard a time as he sometimes has wrapping his head around how Leo thinks, for as poorly as it went, he could see it for what it was.
He's done the same thing before, after all.
(Some part of himself he tends not to look at, childlike and hidden away in the back of his mind, holds onto the fact that Leo was trying to find him the whole time like it's a life raft.)
There are many things Raph's ready to expect to follow at the tail end there.
"I died in there" is not one of them. That fully does not compute. Confusion, in a strange drawn-back sort of form. Like the water at a shore might start to pull away when a giant wave is coming. ]
But we saved you. I was there for that part.
[ It wasn't even like a thing he heard after the fact?? Sir? ]
[Ho boy. That reaction tells him everything in very quick succession. He wants to both thank and also strangle Donnie for keeping his promise to not talk about it.
He stares up at his big brother, a face that Raph probably saw a million times growing up. His little brother in blue scared and guilty. He knows he has to explain it all.]
I haven't gotten there yet.
How- I know you and Dee are from months ahead of mine, but how much did you talk to him and Casey Junior about the timeline stuff? And how we changed the future, created a split timeline, all of that?
Raph takes a brief and incriminating few seconds of silence. Everything and everyone was kind of a mess right after the fact. There's honestly not much about that first week or so that he remembers super clearly. ]
Not much. I know it got all sci-fi and branchy. So CJ's future isn't gone-gone, but it also, uh. Is. Gone. [ By the time he did get the basic rundown, if he's totally honest, he didn't... care too much about the details.
Like, he cared, but the first and most important priority was being grateful and relieved that they all made it through. That even with the injuries and the laundry list of necessary medical procedures and the nightmares and the scarcity of supplies what with New York being a whole mess, he had his family in reach. Alive.
Very something-something timeline time travel anyway the point is no, Casey Junior will not be fading out of existence like in Back to the Future, Raph, he's a permanent addition to the family.
Which he didn't have complaints about. The kid's both very nice and a real lifesaver. ]
And I know you got here from before we got you out. [ Which he's worried about if he thinks about it too long. Stubborn determination that everyone's gonna get out of here and go where they want is the end goal. What he's always gonna be trying to push towards.
He doesn't know what Leo's situation looks like if there's no putting people back in the moment they came from, though. Time-wise.
What happens if they opened that portal and there was no Leo in any kind of shape to pull through it? But Leo ends up where he got taken from like, months later, because he was there and got nabbed for this stupid cult at the worst possible moment? How does Leo get saved again if he ends up back there but it's changed so that they all think they lost him?
How would that even mix into the dumb time travel stuff they already have going on? ]
So-- what, you think you're from a different one? [ wait they have two canonical timelines already ] A different different one.
[ At no point did Raph apply the 2+2 of the canonical timeline branches to their whole personal time situation here. He has fully been on team "oh yeah we all technically came from different days, but we'll figure it out, I dunno."
Because plans, he can do. Kill a big snake. Keep people as safe as he can until they get there. Strategies with complex timeline ramifications, he's not really built for.
(Respectfully with all his heart, he hates everything about it and a lot about what is happening here.) ]
[He feels all that. Lets it wash over him, that apprehension and fear. The worry from his big brother about the possibilities he can conceive of, different from what Leo's focused on while he's been here.
It isn't a bad thing. It's just different; they've always looked at different angles of the same thing and put it together.]
I mean, probably? I just- I felt it. For a split second before I woke up here.
[For that brief moment before he opened his eyes on the temple floor, he felt his heart stop. His thoughts go empty and the darkness starting to come for him before this place swept him up into its grasp instead.
He can't help how his own memory of the moments flash in the reflection behind him, the arms of that robotic exosuit built to destroy and conquer crashing into and cracking his shell, his bones underneath, hit after hit.
He's trembling as he sits here, clenching his eyes shut for a minute before he looks back up at Raph. There's another unspoken apology there. He isn't asking Raph to understand the complexities of timelines and splits and all that. Just to understand that the Leo in front of him might not be the one they got out before it was too late.]
Can't really prove it one way or the other but... I'm. I'm pretty sure. Talked with Dee about it some, but he's too stubborn to listen to me. Hunter- [He bites on his bottom lip thinking for a second.] Hunter's kinda guessed at it.
[ Okay. Alright. Okay. Raph goes ahead and thinks that very hard at himself, okay, tries to make it into a mental anchor, watches the images flash on the water and tries to not get overwhelmed by wanting to tear a hole in dimensions himself and pull up to rip the tongue out of that chewed-up gumwad's mouth just for a start--
Leo is Leo. If there were ten Leos in here with him they'd all be his, and anyone who touches them anyone who takes them away anything that tries it--
(Succeeded. Somewhere. Some time.
It's not okay.)
And that knocks the wind out of his metaphorical sails. Maybe not in the full scope of science or detailed understanding of the theory, and why Leo even feels sorry goes right into the confusion vortex, but. The concept. What Leo is saying, what Leo was feeling.
Leo will feel it when that comes home to roost. Less because of an extensive emotional sledgehammer and more because after about two seconds of a too-big, discordant mess-
- a grief so crushingly heavy he couldn't stand through it, "one day you will understand-" get it together, Leo's right here, he's right here, he needs- guiltguiltguilt- even a broken stupid cult kidnapping system clock is right twice a day, apparently- "the sacrifice we must make-"
- Raph looks back to Leo and maybe panics a little bit, and slams up the best emotional wall he can commit to on the fly. Just need a minute. Just need to fortify for a minute until that eases up, because this isn't about him. It's about Leo. Raph can feel feelings about things literally whenever he wants.
He reaches out with his hands instead, in this place and in the real world, a careful grab, straddling the line between attempted comfort and reassuring himself that Leo's there to reach for at all. ]
We'll figure somethin' out. Okay? I don't know what somethin' looks like yet, but we're definitely gonna figure it. I promise. You're gonna be fine.
[ They just absolutely a hundred percent... can't... send Leo back the way he came from. Once all this is over.
But that's probably plenty of time to figure out other options. ]
[For just that split second, he feels it, feels those words. A woman's voice, sad and regretful- Before Raph blocks it out, hides it away.
What is he hiding? What had Raph heard? But feeling how protective Raph is hearing it all, it... Feels different than Don's stubborn need to try and 'save' him. He lets his hands (and entire forearms, really) be taken, turning his wrists so he can grip Raph's wrists right back. Brotherly bonds, brotherly handholding, it's allowed. He's never shied away from physical affection with them and he wasn't about to start now.
But now he's going to wonder. He should tell his brother the other part.]
We will, yeah. Um. Hunter kinda - We talked some. And he offered to let me go with him if we ever find a way out of this place. [It's not the same as going home home, but it's still... Sort of home. In a way. He's thought about the logistics, that the Boiling Isles has a portal to the east coast, and he could easily portal himself to Manhattan for visits.]
[ The handholding is already very helpful. Loosens some coil of tension. Settles his nerves. Leo's right here. He's right here. They can figure out anything as long as he's still here.
Raph sends a half-distracted little push for later. The voice, the wondering. One of the other things he wanted to bring to this. It wouldn't be great right this second.
There's no real way to keep anyone safe or okay in this place, but alive at the end when the dust settles-- that's always worth moving towards, right? Still alive? If there's somewhere to go, there's somewhere to figure out the healing after it.
He'd rip his own heart out if it would make a good safe landing pad for his brothers. For whoever came after that, he guesses, down the line. And whatever awful world-ending thing no one ever told them about that they gotta clean up next.
(Because it seems like there's always another thing around the corner. Every time they think that's it, and they won for real, for good, they're ready for whatever's next, something bigger gets dug up that's worse than they know how to be ready for.
He's tired. They're not even home anymore and thinking about it makes him tired.
How safe of a landing pad is that by comparison, after a place like the temple?)
The Boiling Isles aren't... bad, from what Hunter's talked about. Belos is gone, Hunter's got his friends there, it would be safe. Probably a lot of cleanup work to keep busy with, busy can be good. Lots of normal-life opportunities. Living in the open.
Another complicated little mix. Not a closed-door spiral in the fashion of that initial reaction. But happy, sad, worried, confused. A belated realization that the killing the snake and getting everyone somewhere they wanna be means a lot of people he cares about here... not being in reach anymore. The weird preemptive grief that comes with that.
Relief. Hunter and Leo would take care of each other if they stuck together. Protect each other. No question.
It's a couple thing anyway, right? Pick a place, move in together? That's not bad, either. He wouldn't expect Korone or Eve to move into a sewer lair if their whole thing with Donnie got to that point.
Just. ]
Would you... [ Ugh. What if he wasn't bad at words one of these times, actually. One single time. ] You'd still try to reach us, though? If that's what you do?
[ The Royal Us. "Us who've been here with you and gone through all this with you," "other us in your timeline who think they failed you and maybe can't even find you in the ninpo right now."
Reach us. Let us know you're really safe.
Raph assumes the answer is yes, honestly, because this is Leo.
It would just help to hear it out loud. He is going to be a little bit needy as a treat. ]
[A relief. Raph isn't mad. He isn't yelling or anything. Not that he thought his brother would, but there's always the 0.000001% chance he can't rule out. Leo readjusts his grip on his brother's arms, holding him steady there, letting those feelings wash over him. Through him, understanding easily.
He smiles.]
Of course, I would. They've got a portal door to Connecticut and I can just hop over to Manhattan from there no problem. Couldn't get rid of me if you tried.
[It's easy to promise, to reassure. He fully believes it. And it helps that Raph isn't stubbornly refusing to accept what Leo's put in front of him like Donnie. Donnie frustrated him because he kept making the whole thing about Donnie and ignored everything Leo was saying, was trying to say. Leo felt like he was talking to a brick wall constantly when this comes up with his twin. But Raph is understanding it. It's making the reality a lot easier.
The amount of appreciation and love coming through Leo's side isn't entirely quantifiable. But it's powerful.]
[ There is in fact always at least a 0.000001% chance that Raph's first choice will be yelling. He's trying to not do that again in this conversation, but one never truly knows.
Raph will keep this reassurance in the special pocket of his heart where all the genuinely reassuring things go. Pin it up right next to the killing the snake god goal. Pin a copy of it on the vision board of all the reasons to push through whatever this place does, tooth and nail, until everyone comes back out.
Leo has somewhere to go. Somewhere guaranteed safe, somewhere connected to home. Leo planned for that, Hunter planned for it. He didn't- he didn't just not say anything and not try to change it.
Leo's saying it now. A longer road home. Not a goodbye. ]
We wouldn't wanna. We love you.
[ Always. And forever. And then some. If it stings a little bit to only be hearing about this now, if Raph's ready supply of generalized guilt kicks up a fuss in his chest about Leo having to figure this situation out at all--
Well, even Raph knows when he's the pot and someone else is the kettle, sometimes. Considering how devotedly he steps around the specific details of his pang of empathy, he'd have no legs to stand on.
Donnie cares as hard as any of them, so basically enough to power a sun. He wants to be able to fix things. Keep everyone safe. Raph thinks Donnie feels better about solutions he's part of because it means Donnie and his big brain know that all the moving parts work for sure. And he thinks Donnie gets snagged on different different angles and forgets to take a step back once in a while.
The times that lines up with sensitive subjects aren't usually... great.
The image of a Rubik's cube with only one side matched up. Fondness. Time-perfected older brotherly dry resignation. ]
Hueso would hold a grudge if you skipped town permanently anyway.
[ Nah his dumb ass is fully trying not to cry. How do people cope with humor instead of crying. It's inconceivable. ]
[it's difficult to fully express the amount of gratitude and affection Leo feels for his older brother in this moment. It's an overwhelming feeling, threatening to spill over, coloring his entire side of the waterfall that electric blue he has in his heart and soul.
He takes a deep breath before letting out a quiet little laugh at that. Squeezes Raph's forearms again.]
I think he probably would, yeah. Got a big enough tab I owe him for.
[He knows Hueso is also soft on him. Wouldn't let Leo skip town without a real talk.]
[ Oh, wow. There he go. It's infectious. If not for all the exact same reasons, considering the subject at hand, then at least for stuff with the same roots.
Understanding. Being understood. Chipping away at figuring out talking at his brothers versus talking to them. He's been trying to get better about that since Shredder. It's a lot of built-up habit. Like most stuff he tries to figure out, he figures he's gonna have to mess it up pretty bad before he starts to get it. Anger, restraint, patience, real teamwork, leading, listening, asking for help somewhere between needing it and imploding about it.
The list could go on.
It means a lot that his brothers have always been willing to wait him out. He knows he doesn't exactly make it easy.
Surprising probably exactly no one, he is going for hug time. It's the most important first step of the "if anything touches Leo again maybe I tone-match the snake cult and eviscerate something about it, that's normal and reasonable and feasible" plan.
The narration doesn't know how to classify that emotionally. Anxiety to hypothetical anger pipeline??? Raph loves doing that cool thing where he feels 4+ things at once very strongly and has learned to mostly surf the wave until he can pick one. Who can even really say anymore. ]
[He isn't wasting a second going in for that hug, pulling Raph in as best he can. He's simultaneously relieved and also sad that his brother got dragged here, but at the very least they can talk like this.
Leo knows he would do the same for Raph if anyone hurt him maliciously. There is nothing that would stop him. He wants nothing more than for his family to be safe - both his family from home, and the new family they picked up here.]
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Re: Day ~90 probably
He lets that cool mist from the falls keep him a little calmer. Why did Dad do this to them? Because it does feel like something he chose to do to them, and not an agreement they all came to together. Maybe if it'd been worked up to, maybe if it had been discussed, it could've been easier. Maybe Leo would've even felt prepared.]
How was I supposed to? [There's no heat to the question, just a genuine question.] Dad had expectations of me, and you were dealing with the change...
Re: Day ~90 probably
It still stings. If Raph's honest. Their dad making that call and stepping back like it wasn't a big deal, like it couldn't be life or death if something serious happened (said a highly intense and historically overprotective king).
Not mad, not bitter, not even really surprised. Just stung and disappointed.
... well.
Maybe a little mad specifically right now. ]
Leo, you're like a hundred times more important than either of those!
[ No, come on, reel it in some, Raph. Get a grip. Yelling is not communicating. He can do it. He can kinda sorta do it.
He can't do it. He wants to punch the sun as if it'll prove his point. The entire planet should know he's offended on Leo's behalf and not a hundred percent sure who the right offense target is. ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
Disbelief. A little mild confusion that Raph is offended on his behalf? Shouldn't he be offended for himself? He instinctively wants to ask: Am I more important than those expectations? His own self-doubt creeping in. He knows, logically, emotionally, that they all care about each other and want each other to be happy and safe. But there's still sometimes that feeling. Those times way early on his suggestions or plans were glossed over, his sharing he few things he purely enjoys with them to be made a joke (he REALLY wanted them to be as psyched as he was about MTH.
Not the point. It isn't the point of this conversation. Leo shakes his head a little to jostle those thoughts before he goes too deep into that. Focus. Regroup.]
What should I have done then?
Re: Day ~90 probably
Feeling Leo's side of the equation is enough to push Raph from trying to get a handle to actually getting a handle. He shakes his hands out to try to dismiss the tension, looks down at them.
It mostly feels like guilt. A stone-heavy sense of responsibility for what Leo's feeling, second nature. Some confusion for the confusion-- he thought he was pretty clear?
Raph doesn't have an answer on tap for the question right away. He hesitates. Flounders a little, trying to figure out what to say and where to start. ]
Tell me? Text me. Stick a note to my shell.
[ Is it even about "should've done" or "did wrong"??? Because it feels like that's a side step away from the point. How is he supposed to know? (He's the one who's here. He guesses whether he knows or not doesn't matter. He needs to know anyway.) ]
Why was I gonna push back if I thought you really wanted to give it a shot?
Re: Day ~90 probably
[He says it easily enough now that the hump of starting the conversation is over.]
But then you never tried to fight me about it or try to take it back, so I figured maybe you didn't want it all those years either, and I didn't wanna shove it back on you-
[It was a dumb, sixteen year old idea. The thought that maybe he could annoy Raph into taking it back. But even as those two months went on, Leo regretted it. But it was one of those situations where once he took the first step, he couldn't go back. Not without a lot of awkwardness he wanted to avoid.]
...After I'd done all that, if I'd come to you and really told you I didn't want it and asked you to take it back, would you have?
Re: Day ~90 probably
He doesn't know if he's hurt that Leo tried to manipulate his way out of it or relieved that's what it was all along. Not just-- looking at something Raph worked hard at, took seriously, something important, and deciding it wasn't worth all that.
Relieved, maybe. He's leaning that way. ]
Yeah. I would've. [ At least that answer's easy. He's the big brother. He did it before, he could do it again. After unlocking their ninpo, after Shredder, it would've been less terrifying. Less lonely. But... ]
I mean, maybe I would've put out some feelers about, uh. Playin' training wheels for you. Or working out a system where you could take point on some missions. I dunno. 'cause you're good, y'know? You're a natural. And I trust you. [ And there, reflected in the water, a little wave of light passing through it, is blue.
Leo was the first one he learned to trust like that. ]
Pops didn't think that idea up just for kicks, buddy.
[ Leo sees more angles. Usually has a good read on people. Has a good head for detailed planning. Knows how to motivate, cares about everyone being safe. He's really good. Would it have been fair to hold him back from growing into it? ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
But Raph does trust him. Raph trusted him when Leo asked him to, and it means the world to him. Knowing his big brother will trust him when the chips are down.]
I- [Uggghhhh talking. They are talking and working this out, not arguing.] I know. I know, you and dad think I'd be good at it.
...But after everything that happened, I dunno if I'm the best choice there.
Re: Day ~90 probably
Raph's starting to wonder, between this and the Witch Town memory he saw a while back, if it turns out he actually did inherit their dad's way of assuming everyone else was on the same thoughts and feelings level about stuff and barreling forward with it.
All the nagging and lecturing and pushing he did not wanting Leo to have to learn the tough parts the hard way, to feel like he used to feel, and he never stopped to ask if Leo felt the way he used to feel already. Right from jump.
Raph shrugs one shoulder. ]
I still think you're a great choice. If you ever do want it. I'm proud of you either way.
[ That Is A Threat. He'll be very proud.
If, uh. Also quietly absolutely terrified of Leo making a choice to sacrifice himself like that again. ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
Leo takes a breath and tilts his head back, watching the water behind and above him flow down to hit the rocks they're sitting on.]
I still think you're the best choice of that though. Always were, even if we made it tough.
[And then there's some apology there. Unspoken, but felt. They're brothers in his mind first and foremost, even when things got dangerous and they needed to be more serious. Leo never wanted them to get too lost in being heroes and forget they're brothers first.
But then there's nervous energy. A flash in the reflective water behind him of Krang Prime towering over him before he blinks it back, eyes closed tight for a second.]
I think you should take it back over. If you guys get out of here.
Re: Day ~90 probably
[ Easy affection. A candle in the dark. A solid, real hand to grab instead of hitting the bottom, I want you to know I finally understand.
Brothers first.
Not sure what the emotional equivalent of almost reflexively punching some water is. Probably a very brief jolt of equal parts anger, fear, and protectiveness. His apologies, Leo, let him balance that out with, dare he say, more confusion. ]
And we're all gonna get outta here.
[ Raph believes that.
He believes it whether he really believes it or not.
There are a lot of things a turtle can substitute with grit and frankly unhinged depths of stubbornness. Hope is one of those things, right.
(... it's weird to hear Leo say "if." "You guys," like he's separate. Don't care for that one bit.) ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
...Yeah, you're right. You guys are definitely gonna get back home.
[Not 'out of here' this time; Leo has determined he'll get out of Temple Horizon. Just maybe not 'home'.]
I tried to make it easy when I could. [Keeping the guys focused when they all got unruly. Making sure they had the bigger picture in mind, bringing up things he thought were obvious when he realized they weren't. All little things just to help Raph lead.]
....Did... Don talk to you? About. [He should talk about it. It's the whole point of why they're doing this. But why is it so hard?] About what happened.
Re: Day ~90 probably
Anxiety is already starting to creep in. Like most of Raph's feelings, it only really comes in sledgehammer strength. A do something fix it bleeding into self-directed irritation, that he's never learned to cut back as much as he's learned it usually works out better if he can keep himself on a leash until it eases up.
They're here together. Whatever it is, they'll figure it out. ]
Depends on what 'what' you mean. I hate to say it, but we got a 'what happened' list about as long as both my arms put together. [ That's probably not super helpful.
There's still a list if he narrows it down to generally what they're here for. But it's a less huge list. ] He, uh. He showed me some of what happened after the escape pods?
[ He doesn't regret what he did, there, but he does feel guilty. Especially seeing the fallout he wasn't there for.
Leo angry. Really actually angry. Pushing through, no stopping to think first, not listening. Raph remembers as much as he remembers other parts of what Leo said to get through to him. Like half a dream, a little warped, you didn't yell because you were mad, you yelled because you were scared. ]
I feel like maybe that's not exactly what you mean.
Re: Day ~90 probably
But there is a long "what happened" list if he's being honest. He rubs at the back of his neck with trembling hands.]
Y-yeah. There was.. It was a lot that day.
["That day", because it's been months now in this place.] Sorry you had to see it.
[Just do it. Rip off the band-aid, fast and quick. Sometimes it's good to ease Raph into things, but sometimes you do just have to do it quick.]
I was talking about after the portal cut off. I-
[Just fucking say it. Stop hesitating. He's gone out of his way to talk around it, allude, hint, but never just outright say it. Raph deserves that much from him after what he did.] I died in there, Raph. Right before this place.
Re: Day ~90 probably
[ For as hard a time as he sometimes has wrapping his head around how Leo thinks, for as poorly as it went, he could see it for what it was.
He's done the same thing before, after all.
(Some part of himself he tends not to look at, childlike and hidden away in the back of his mind, holds onto the fact that Leo was trying to find him the whole time like it's a life raft.)
There are many things Raph's ready to expect to follow at the tail end there.
"I died in there" is not one of them. That fully does not compute. Confusion, in a strange drawn-back sort of form. Like the water at a shore might start to pull away when a giant wave is coming. ]
But we saved you. I was there for that part.
[ It wasn't even like a thing he heard after the fact?? Sir? ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
He stares up at his big brother, a face that Raph probably saw a million times growing up. His little brother in blue scared and guilty. He knows he has to explain it all.]
I haven't gotten there yet.
How- I know you and Dee are from months ahead of mine, but how much did you talk to him and Casey Junior about the timeline stuff? And how we changed the future, created a split timeline, all of that?
Re: Day ~90 probably
Raph takes a brief and incriminating few seconds of silence. Everything and everyone was kind of a mess right after the fact. There's honestly not much about that first week or so that he remembers super clearly. ]
Not much. I know it got all sci-fi and branchy. So CJ's future isn't gone-gone, but it also, uh. Is. Gone. [ By the time he did get the basic rundown, if he's totally honest, he didn't... care too much about the details.
Like, he cared, but the first and most important priority was being grateful and relieved that they all made it through. That even with the injuries and the laundry list of necessary medical procedures and the nightmares and the scarcity of supplies what with New York being a whole mess, he had his family in reach. Alive.
Very something-something timeline time travel anyway the point is no, Casey Junior will not be fading out of existence like in Back to the Future, Raph, he's a permanent addition to the family.
Which he didn't have complaints about. The kid's both very nice and a real lifesaver. ]
And I know you got here from before we got you out. [ Which he's worried about if he thinks about it too long. Stubborn determination that everyone's gonna get out of here and go where they want is the end goal. What he's always gonna be trying to push towards.
He doesn't know what Leo's situation looks like if there's no putting people back in the moment they came from, though. Time-wise.
What happens if they opened that portal and there was no Leo in any kind of shape to pull through it? But Leo ends up where he got taken from like, months later, because he was there and got nabbed for this stupid cult at the worst possible moment? How does Leo get saved again if he ends up back there but it's changed so that they all think they lost him?
How would that even mix into the dumb time travel stuff they already have going on? ]
So-- what, you think you're from a different one? [ wait they have two canonical timelines already ] A different different one.
[ At no point did Raph apply the 2+2 of the canonical timeline branches to their whole personal time situation here. He has fully been on team "oh yeah we all technically came from different days, but we'll figure it out, I dunno."
Because plans, he can do. Kill a big snake. Keep people as safe as he can until they get there. Strategies with complex timeline ramifications, he's not really built for.
(Respectfully with all his heart, he hates everything about it and a lot about what is happening here.) ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
It isn't a bad thing. It's just different; they've always looked at different angles of the same thing and put it together.]
I mean, probably? I just- I felt it. For a split second before I woke up here.
[For that brief moment before he opened his eyes on the temple floor, he felt his heart stop. His thoughts go empty and the darkness starting to come for him before this place swept him up into its grasp instead.
He can't help how his own memory of the moments flash in the reflection behind him, the arms of that robotic exosuit built to destroy and conquer crashing into and cracking his shell, his bones underneath, hit after hit.
He's trembling as he sits here, clenching his eyes shut for a minute before he looks back up at Raph. There's another unspoken apology there. He isn't asking Raph to understand the complexities of timelines and splits and all that. Just to understand that the Leo in front of him might not be the one they got out before it was too late.]
Can't really prove it one way or the other but... I'm. I'm pretty sure. Talked with Dee about it some, but he's too stubborn to listen to me. Hunter- [He bites on his bottom lip thinking for a second.] Hunter's kinda guessed at it.
Re: Day ~90 probably
Leo is Leo. If there were ten Leos in here with him they'd all be his, and anyone who touches them anyone who takes them away anything that tries it--
(Succeeded. Somewhere. Some time.
It's not okay.)
And that knocks the wind out of his metaphorical sails. Maybe not in the full scope of science or detailed understanding of the theory, and why Leo even feels sorry goes right into the confusion vortex, but. The concept. What Leo is saying, what Leo was feeling.
Leo will feel it when that comes home to roost. Less because of an extensive emotional sledgehammer and more because after about two seconds of a too-big, discordant mess-
- a grief so crushingly heavy he couldn't stand through it, "one day you will understand-" get it together, Leo's right here, he's right here, he needs- guiltguiltguilt- even a broken stupid cult kidnapping system clock is right twice a day, apparently- "the sacrifice we must make-"
- Raph looks back to Leo and maybe panics a little bit, and slams up the best emotional wall he can commit to on the fly. Just need a minute. Just need to fortify for a minute until that eases up, because this isn't about him. It's about Leo. Raph can feel feelings about things literally whenever he wants.
He reaches out with his hands instead, in this place and in the real world, a careful grab, straddling the line between attempted comfort and reassuring himself that Leo's there to reach for at all. ]
We'll figure somethin' out. Okay? I don't know what somethin' looks like yet, but we're definitely gonna figure it. I promise. You're gonna be fine.
[ They just absolutely a hundred percent... can't... send Leo back the way he came from. Once all this is over.
But that's probably plenty of time to figure out other options. ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
What is he hiding? What had Raph heard? But feeling how protective Raph is hearing it all, it... Feels different than Don's stubborn need to try and 'save' him. He lets his hands (and entire forearms, really) be taken, turning his wrists so he can grip Raph's wrists right back. Brotherly bonds, brotherly handholding, it's allowed. He's never shied away from physical affection with them and he wasn't about to start now.
But now he's going to wonder. He should tell his brother the other part.]
We will, yeah. Um. Hunter kinda - We talked some. And he offered to let me go with him if we ever find a way out of this place. [It's not the same as going home home, but it's still... Sort of home. In a way. He's thought about the logistics, that the Boiling Isles has a portal to the east coast, and he could easily portal himself to Manhattan for visits.]
Re: Day ~90 probably
Raph sends a half-distracted little push for later. The voice, the wondering. One of the other things he wanted to bring to this. It wouldn't be great right this second.
There's no real way to keep anyone safe or okay in this place, but alive at the end when the dust settles-- that's always worth moving towards, right? Still alive? If there's somewhere to go, there's somewhere to figure out the healing after it.
He'd rip his own heart out if it would make a good safe landing pad for his brothers. For whoever came after that, he guesses, down the line. And whatever awful world-ending thing no one ever told them about that they gotta clean up next.
(Because it seems like there's always another thing around the corner. Every time they think that's it, and they won for real, for good, they're ready for whatever's next, something bigger gets dug up that's worse than they know how to be ready for.
He's tired. They're not even home anymore and thinking about it makes him tired.
How safe of a landing pad is that by comparison, after a place like the temple?)
The Boiling Isles aren't... bad, from what Hunter's talked about. Belos is gone, Hunter's got his friends there, it would be safe. Probably a lot of cleanup work to keep busy with, busy can be good. Lots of normal-life opportunities. Living in the open.
Another complicated little mix. Not a closed-door spiral in the fashion of that initial reaction. But happy, sad, worried, confused. A belated realization that the killing the snake and getting everyone somewhere they wanna be means a lot of people he cares about here... not being in reach anymore. The weird preemptive grief that comes with that.
Relief. Hunter and Leo would take care of each other if they stuck together. Protect each other. No question.
It's a couple thing anyway, right? Pick a place, move in together? That's not bad, either. He wouldn't expect Korone or Eve to move into a sewer lair if their whole thing with Donnie got to that point.
Just. ]
Would you... [ Ugh. What if he wasn't bad at words one of these times, actually. One single time. ] You'd still try to reach us, though? If that's what you do?
[ The Royal Us. "Us who've been here with you and gone through all this with you," "other us in your timeline who think they failed you and maybe can't even find you in the ninpo right now."
Reach us. Let us know you're really safe.
Raph assumes the answer is yes, honestly, because this is Leo.
It would just help to hear it out loud. He is going to be a little bit needy as a treat. ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
He smiles.]
Of course, I would. They've got a portal door to Connecticut and I can just hop over to Manhattan from there no problem. Couldn't get rid of me if you tried.
[It's easy to promise, to reassure. He fully believes it. And it helps that Raph isn't stubbornly refusing to accept what Leo's put in front of him like Donnie. Donnie frustrated him because he kept making the whole thing about Donnie and ignored everything Leo was saying, was trying to say. Leo felt like he was talking to a brick wall constantly when this comes up with his twin. But Raph is understanding it. It's making the reality a lot easier.
The amount of appreciation and love coming through Leo's side isn't entirely quantifiable. But it's powerful.]
Re: Day ~90 probably
Raph will keep this reassurance in the special pocket of his heart where all the genuinely reassuring things go. Pin it up right next to the killing the snake god goal. Pin a copy of it on the vision board of all the reasons to push through whatever this place does, tooth and nail, until everyone comes back out.
Leo has somewhere to go. Somewhere guaranteed safe, somewhere connected to home. Leo planned for that, Hunter planned for it. He didn't- he didn't just not say anything and not try to change it.
Leo's saying it now. A longer road home. Not a goodbye. ]
We wouldn't wanna. We love you.
[ Always. And forever. And then some. If it stings a little bit to only be hearing about this now, if Raph's ready supply of generalized guilt kicks up a fuss in his chest about Leo having to figure this situation out at all--
Well, even Raph knows when he's the pot and someone else is the kettle, sometimes. Considering how devotedly he steps around the specific details of his pang of empathy, he'd have no legs to stand on.
Donnie cares as hard as any of them, so basically enough to power a sun. He wants to be able to fix things. Keep everyone safe. Raph thinks Donnie feels better about solutions he's part of because it means Donnie and his big brain know that all the moving parts work for sure. And he thinks Donnie gets snagged on different different angles and forgets to take a step back once in a while.
The times that lines up with sensitive subjects aren't usually... great.
The image of a Rubik's cube with only one side matched up. Fondness. Time-perfected older brotherly dry resignation. ]
Hueso would hold a grudge if you skipped town permanently anyway.
[ Nah his dumb ass is fully trying not to cry. How do people cope with humor instead of crying. It's inconceivable. ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
He takes a deep breath before letting out a quiet little laugh at that. Squeezes Raph's forearms again.]
I think he probably would, yeah. Got a big enough tab I owe him for.
[He knows Hueso is also soft on him. Wouldn't let Leo skip town without a real talk.]
Re: Day ~90 probably
Understanding. Being understood. Chipping away at figuring out talking at his brothers versus talking to them. He's been trying to get better about that since Shredder. It's a lot of built-up habit. Like most stuff he tries to figure out, he figures he's gonna have to mess it up pretty bad before he starts to get it. Anger, restraint, patience, real teamwork, leading, listening, asking for help somewhere between needing it and imploding about it.
The list could go on.
It means a lot that his brothers have always been willing to wait him out. He knows he doesn't exactly make it easy.
Surprising probably exactly no one, he is going for hug time. It's the most important first step of the "if anything touches Leo again maybe I tone-match the snake cult and eviscerate something about it, that's normal and reasonable and feasible" plan.
The narration doesn't know how to classify that emotionally. Anxiety to hypothetical anger pipeline??? Raph loves doing that cool thing where he feels 4+ things at once very strongly and has learned to mostly surf the wave until he can pick one. Who can even really say anymore. ]
Re: Day ~90 probably
Leo knows he would do the same for Raph if anyone hurt him maliciously. There is nothing that would stop him. He wants nothing more than for his family to be safe - both his family from home, and the new family they picked up here.]
Thanks. For- getting it.
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